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The sequel to 12 Rules for Life offers further guidance on the periolus path of modern life. In 12 Rules for Life, clinical psychologist and celebrated professor at Harvard and the University of Toronto Dr. Jordan B. Peterson helped millions of readers impose order on the chaos of their lives. Now, in this bold sequel, Peterson delivers twelve more lifesaving principles f The sequel to 12 Rules for Life offers further guidance on the periolus path of modern life. In 12 Rules for Life, clinical psychologist and celebrated professor at Harvard and the University of Toronto Dr. Jordan B. Peterson helped millions of readers impose order on the chaos of their lives. Now, in this bold sequel, Peterson delivers twelve more lifesaving principles for resisting the exhausting toll that our desire to order the world inevitably takes. In a time when the human will increasingly imposes itself over every sphere of life—from our social structures to our emotional states—Peterson warns that too much security is dangerous. What’s more, he offers strategies for overcoming the cultural, scientific, and psychological forces causing us to tend toward tyranny, and teaches us how to rely instead on our instinct to find meaning and purpose, even—and especially—when we find ourselves powerless. While chaos, in excess, threatens us with instability and anxiety, unchecked order can petrify us into submission. Beyond Order provides a call to balance these two fundamental principles of reality itself, and guides us along the straight and narrow path that divides them.


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The sequel to 12 Rules for Life offers further guidance on the periolus path of modern life. In 12 Rules for Life, clinical psychologist and celebrated professor at Harvard and the University of Toronto Dr. Jordan B. Peterson helped millions of readers impose order on the chaos of their lives. Now, in this bold sequel, Peterson delivers twelve more lifesaving principles f The sequel to 12 Rules for Life offers further guidance on the periolus path of modern life. In 12 Rules for Life, clinical psychologist and celebrated professor at Harvard and the University of Toronto Dr. Jordan B. Peterson helped millions of readers impose order on the chaos of their lives. Now, in this bold sequel, Peterson delivers twelve more lifesaving principles for resisting the exhausting toll that our desire to order the world inevitably takes. In a time when the human will increasingly imposes itself over every sphere of life—from our social structures to our emotional states—Peterson warns that too much security is dangerous. What’s more, he offers strategies for overcoming the cultural, scientific, and psychological forces causing us to tend toward tyranny, and teaches us how to rely instead on our instinct to find meaning and purpose, even—and especially—when we find ourselves powerless. While chaos, in excess, threatens us with instability and anxiety, unchecked order can petrify us into submission. Beyond Order provides a call to balance these two fundamental principles of reality itself, and guides us along the straight and narrow path that divides them.

30 review for Beyond Order: 12 More Rules For Life

  1. 4 out of 5

    Tom

    Wow, some of the things I read about JP are so full of bitterness and vitriol it’s weird. He’s a hypocrite and a drug taker selling basic advice so should be strung up? The pomposity makes me cringe. I for one enjoy listening to him and quite enjoyed his last book. The advice he gives clearly isn’t for everyone, after all we know that self entitlement and victim mentality reigns supreme nowadays so having a white, conservative man talking in a way that might remind people of strict school teache Wow, some of the things I read about JP are so full of bitterness and vitriol it’s weird. He’s a hypocrite and a drug taker selling basic advice so should be strung up? The pomposity makes me cringe. I for one enjoy listening to him and quite enjoyed his last book. The advice he gives clearly isn’t for everyone, after all we know that self entitlement and victim mentality reigns supreme nowadays so having a white, conservative man talking in a way that might remind people of strict school teachers or disciplinarian dads must be terrifying in itself. Maybe that’s why the anger? Fear? “Please stop telling me to take responsibility man!!!” Anyway, lots of people really like him and what he says. Believe it or not, lots of intelligent people of both sexes like him as well. That’s isn’t of course a reason to like him. I personally get put off just about anything popular. I’m a lone wolf me. Always made me own bed. Cooked me own food. Love exercising. Never asked for a friend or begged to be accepted. You know, I’m generally self satisfied really. Think I’ll get that copy of his latest book reserved. In all seriousness though I actually know some people who aren’t keen on him. I actually love some of them and whilst we don’t always see eye to eye we are adult enough to get through that (most of the time without violence). To be fair they haven’t read and listened to him as much as me so I put it down to self entitlement and bitterness. I reckon this is going to be a 4.5 star book. You’re welcome 🧐

  2. 5 out of 5

    Sean

    How is this grifter still a thing? Seriously? I'd really hoped Jordan Peterson's weird and cultish lobsterpeople army would disband and stop spamming their guru all over the place when he turned himself into a vegetable. It appears, unfortunately, this isn't what's going to happen. Jordan Peterson, regaining the use of his motor skills after his drug addictions left him in a coma, is back to give you more life advice! Taking self-help advice from Jordan Peterson at this point is like taking diet How is this grifter still a thing? Seriously? I'd really hoped Jordan Peterson's weird and cultish lobsterpeople army would disband and stop spamming their guru all over the place when he turned himself into a vegetable. It appears, unfortunately, this isn't what's going to happen. Jordan Peterson, regaining the use of his motor skills after his drug addictions left him in a coma, is back to give you more life advice! Taking self-help advice from Jordan Peterson at this point is like taking diet advice from Chris Christie. Actually, it's like taking diet advice from Jordan Peterson and his Chaos Dragon daughter, Mikhaila. All-beef diet? Because a glass of apple cider gave him a psychotic episode that lasted 25 days? No wonder he became depressed - can you imagine the constipation!? His self-help advice is so banal it's ludicrous. Hey, clean your room guys! Stand up straight...wash your penis! Your mom probably gave you this advice during your childhood and she didn't charge you $25 for it. But that's not really why he became famous. Jordan Peterson is someone who defends the status quo by telling people they shouldn't criticize injustice in the world, instead they should worry about fixing their own imperfections. He gave this advice as he was popping pills like Tic Tacs and going on diatribes about the downfall of western civilization (which is apparently due to crossdressing postmodern commies or whatever). Can people really not see this extraordinary hypocrisy? Apparently with Peterson it is rules for thee, but not for me. This is a guy who stated during his interview with Cathy Newman that freedom of speech means the right to offend, but then Dr. Free Speech goes and sues a university for $1.5 million because faculty criticized him during a meeting. Jordan Peterson offers those right-wing incel types the trappings of intellectualism for their bizarre movement. At the end of the day it's nothing more than a veneer. He's just a more articulate version of that crazy guy riding around with the "Obama Is A Marxist" bumper sticker. Jordan Peterson's last book opened with multiple pages dedicated to using lobsters to make points about human nature. That is, Peterson argued certain human behaviors, like hierarchies, are completely natural because lobsters also exhibit them. But do you know what behavior lobsters exhibit which he failed to mention? They urinate on each other for greetings. Which is how I recommend you greet Jordan Peterson if you ever come across him. If he gets upset just tell him it's completely natural because lobsters do it. -------- Update 3/17/21 Alright, enough! I gave it a go, but I'm sorry lobsterpeople, this is some Deepak Chopra level gibberish you guys are into. In addition, if you're already familiar with Jordan Peterson, having read his previous books and/or listened to his interviews and talks, something you'll notice as you make your way through this book is that he's just rehashing old material. And one of his original 12 rules was to be precise in your speech! He also warned in his last book against having too many rules, claiming that was counterproductive. But here we are with 12 more rules! I suppose if this one sells anything like the last one there will be even more rules added, which he'll really have to scrape the bottom of the barrel for. Make sure your shoelaces are tied? Remember to stay hydrated? The dressed up platitudes he offers in his new book are represented poorly, often with little to do with the claims being made, and sometimes get downright creepy. Like one tangent where he speculated on the sex lives of Harry Potter characters and how Harry needs to slay dragons to conquer their virginity or something. Huh?! Other times Beyond Order includes historical facts that are just objectively wrong. For example when he veers into ancient Egyptian mythology and starts speaking about the goddess Isis. Attempting to fit Isis into his "women are chaos" schtick, JP claims Isis was a goddess of chaos. She wasn't. The opposite actually. She was associated with order and order to the ancient Egyptians was viewed as a feminine force. Peterson is no stranger to these historical revisionisms while attempting to support his arguments. He previously claimed he's studied Nazism for 40 years and it was an atheistic doctrine. But all you need to do is take a glance at Nazi uniforms to see a major hole in Peterson's claims. Wehrmacht soldiers wore the phrase "Gott Mitt Uns" (God With Us) right on their uniforms. In multiple ways Peterson, as usual, warns people not to go against tradition in Beyond Order. There didn't appear to be hardly any meaningful action recommended in a way that was not personal. It's the same tired clean your room before you dare criticize the world sorta stuff, coming to you from the guy whose room was really very dirty (both metaphorically and literally, if you've ever seen videos he's done in his study) and who loves to criticize the world. Beyond Order continues to misrepresent the views of writers, both those JP opposes and those he co-opts to use for affirmation of his traditionalism. An example of the latter would be Dostoevsky. Dostoevsky has universal appeal because of his unique psychological insights, but his great works are really arguments against what he saw as the corrupting influence of nearly all western culture on 19th century Russia. What was Dostoevsky trying to preserve? Something like "Obschina," a Christian-socialist way of life for the 19th century Russian peasant, including communal ownership of the land, obviously not a goal shared by JP. One positive is that Peterson did appear to take it easier with the crustacean analogies than in the past, which I appreciated. Really, couldn't you think of anything better for your readers to aspire to than sea insects that get boiled alive?! Anyway, this is all amazing to me. Who knew lying about a law designed to protect people from discrimination, which is what led to Jordan Peterson's rise to fame, could be so lucrative? Remember all that fearmongering? It's been 189 weeks since Bill C-16 became law. Do you know what the arrest tally is? Zero.

  3. 4 out of 5

    Joe

    Reading these reviews, I am struck by the idea that people tend to rate the man rather than the work. As a wise man once told me about reviews, ignore the best ones as well as the worst ones. Those people often have an agenda that is clearly influencing their opinion. Now then, to the matter at hand. Let me begin by saying I thoroughly enjoyed the original 12 rules book. It helped me a great deal, and I enjoyed the message of personal responsibility. I work as a psychologist, and many of my clie Reading these reviews, I am struck by the idea that people tend to rate the man rather than the work. As a wise man once told me about reviews, ignore the best ones as well as the worst ones. Those people often have an agenda that is clearly influencing their opinion. Now then, to the matter at hand. Let me begin by saying I thoroughly enjoyed the original 12 rules book. It helped me a great deal, and I enjoyed the message of personal responsibility. I work as a psychologist, and many of my clients are young men in their late teens and early 20's. I witnessed firsthand how his message of personal responsibility helped a number of these guys. In a generation that has seemingly victimized everyone, it was a timely message to grow up and take ownership of your life. No one is coming to save you. I didn't like this book nearly as much. Yes, I was somewhat influenced by my diminished opinion of Dr. Peterson. The story of food poisoning and subsequent opiate addiction seemed pretty weak to me, and at odds with his overall message of self-reliance. Although I despise political correctness and cancel culture, I also feel he has made some serious missteps in picking his battles. A psychologist's job is not to judge, and to understand that ultimately each person we see in our sessions is an N of 1. The Dr. Phil's of the world do a great deal of damage publicizing the very private journey of psychotherapy in search of ego gratification. Jordan has also wandered into this territory in my opinion. And yet, this book has some excellent sections. Powerful insights about the importance of ownership of one's behaviour. There are not many influential people consistently delivering this message these days. He wanders way too far into the bible, mythology, etc. You're no Joseph Campbell, Jordan, and stop trying to be. So it's a three for me. I'm glad I read it and got a lot out of it, but it certainly had some weak spots.

  4. 4 out of 5

    Rodrigo

    Somehow worse than "12 Rules for Life". Somehow worse than "12 Rules for Life".

  5. 4 out of 5

    Brian Sachetta

    I want to start this review by saying that if you’ve never read any of Jordan Peterson’s work, then you may want to proceed cautiously with this one. That’s not to say it’s bad by any means; as you can tell by my high rating of it, that’s clearly not the case. It’s just to say that Peterson’s writing style is very distinct and not necessarily for everyone. To elaborate on that a bit more, I would classify the writing style as a combination of scholarly, dense, profound, and allusional. As was the I want to start this review by saying that if you’ve never read any of Jordan Peterson’s work, then you may want to proceed cautiously with this one. That’s not to say it’s bad by any means; as you can tell by my high rating of it, that’s clearly not the case. It’s just to say that Peterson’s writing style is very distinct and not necessarily for everyone. To elaborate on that a bit more, I would classify the writing style as a combination of scholarly, dense, profound, and allusional. As was the case in “12 Rules for Life,” here, Peterson starts each chapter with a broad “life rule,” meanders off onto a somewhat long-winded but very well-backed dialogue about said rule (and why we should implement it), then, finally, finishes by stating said rule again. Another reason why I think Peterson’s style can be difficult to digest is that it’s really not all that similar to that of the more “traditional” self-help best-sellers. This one, just like his other books, is like a thesis meets poetry meets mythology meets personal development work. At times, it’s hard to sift through, but by golly, is there profoundness in the weeds. Now, onto my personal experience and review of this one. As you can probably tell, it took me a very long time to grow accustomed to Peterson’s writing style. Personally, I find his podcasts and Youtube videos to be more approachable and interesting. But, again, as evidenced by the rating I’ve given this one, that doesn’t mean it isn’t approachable or interesting at all. It’s very interesting indeed — just less approachable than some of his other mediums. As for the content itself, there’s so much gold to discover here. Sure, it’s at times hidden amongst the long paragraphs, but it’s still there, nonetheless. Though I took a ton of notes while reading this one, and it would be hard to repeat all of those notes here, I think my favorite parts were the discussions on the inevitable difficulties of life, the meaning found in personal responsibility and sacrifice, and how we can wrangle chaos into order and create beauty in the world. I really can’t put my finger on why I liked this one better than “12 Rules.” Again, maybe it’s because I’ve gotten more accustomed to Peterson’s writing over the last three years. Or, maybe it’s because I felt this one had more personal application for me. Whatever the case, I definitely enjoyed my time with it. And while it can certainly be difficult to parse through all the content here, the profound moments and insights are so great that I can’t help but give this one the highest marks possible. Note: I speak vaguely here only because the book is so long that it’s hard to really focus on its specific contents — it would take a very long time to discuss them in a way that does the book justice. So, all in all: this was a very enjoyable read for me. Peterson’s personal style and philosophy are on full display here, and, dare I say, he’s cultivated them almost perfectly in the years since his last release. His ability to willingly take the inevitable darkness of life and spin it into a motivating force is something that I admire so strongly. And, again, while it’s not necessarily for everyone, I’m fairly confident that fans of his will absolutely adore it. -Brian Sachetta Author of “Get Out of Your Head”

  6. 5 out of 5

    Marcás

    Beyond Order shows JBP as more of a social creature, calling for an affirmative attitude towards conserving culture and creatively transforming it. This balanced account, which draws upon his work with individuals in a clinical setting, corrects some of the extremist errors in Freud and Rousseau and undercuts our crude 'expressive individualism'. Peterson punches holes in our social imaginary by drawing upon a variety of fields, centring on his deep and time-tested work as a psychologist. Peterso Beyond Order shows JBP as more of a social creature, calling for an affirmative attitude towards conserving culture and creatively transforming it. This balanced account, which draws upon his work with individuals in a clinical setting, corrects some of the extremist errors in Freud and Rousseau and undercuts our crude 'expressive individualism'. Peterson punches holes in our social imaginary by drawing upon a variety of fields, centring on his deep and time-tested work as a psychologist. Peterson sounds more like the late, great, Rene Girard at times and implicitly refers to mankind as a 'mimetic' creature. Here, he seems finally to be finding the purposeful contours of evolution, expressed through psychology and religion and iterated over aeons. The iterated game that he refers to, bringing the best of Piaget, reintegrates play and utility, highlighting that life is not a zero-sum game. Contra the ideologues or the nihilistic expressivist, drifting from nothing meaningful to nothing meaningful, Peterson has hope and promises that beyond order there is something paradoxically intelligible and worth living for. He encourages us to be grateful in spite of life's suffering, offering a plethora of reasons why this is the best approach to life. Beauty, practical logic, and love amongst them. Ignore many of the ideological one star reviews, most of which are by people we know who have not read the book. Beyond Order is a measured and readable book from the much maligned professor and a welcome return to form after a few turbulent years beset by illness, family suffering, and the pressures of public life. Books like this one can take you beyond cleaning your room, and beyond ossified order, if we let them with some semblance of humility.

  7. 4 out of 5

    Teri

    I just finished. It was amazing. I'm percolating on my final review and will post soon. Old updates: Just finished Rule 4. It was what I needed to hear today. Also, I love the illustrations that accompany each chapter. I restrain myself from peeking ahead and only look at the illustration for each chapter as I get to it, so I am really savoring them. Just finished Rule 2 and, wow, I am motivated to be the hero of my own story. I love how in his first book, he ended each chapter with such power and I just finished. It was amazing. I'm percolating on my final review and will post soon. Old updates: Just finished Rule 4. It was what I needed to hear today. Also, I love the illustrations that accompany each chapter. I restrain myself from peeking ahead and only look at the illustration for each chapter as I get to it, so I am really savoring them. Just finished Rule 2 and, wow, I am motivated to be the hero of my own story. I love how in his first book, he ended each chapter with such power and, so far, Beyond Order does not disappoint. Honestly, the end of Rule 2 felt like a mic drop. What will end up in the final review: Jordan Peterson has the amazing ability to articulate extremely complex truths with clarity and power. I am forever indebted to him for helping me understand myself and see my internal motivations and the way forward in life much more clearly. I have been severely impacted by mental illness since I can remember and I attribute a significant amount of my healing to reading and hearing Jordan Peterson's words (I actually attribute all my healing to my Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ but I believe They worked through him to help me). In 2018, Jordan Peterson said to start moving forward, to make incremental progress and that in a few years, you will be unrecognizable to yourself. It's not like I don't have any problems anymore, but *this has happened for me*. When I look at where I am now (Mar 2021) compared to 2018, things are so much better than I thought possible.

  8. 4 out of 5

    Tara Brabazon

    I am 52. I have three degrees, two graduate diplomas, three masters degrees, and a PhD. I am currently enrolled in a 4th masters. I have written 20 books and over 200 refereed articles. I have presented this information so that the review that follows has context. This is the worst book I have ever read. I have read tens of thousands of academic books. This is as dreadful as any self published book I have ever read. I have found out about Jordan Peterson's father in law. I found out how he mis-ma I am 52. I have three degrees, two graduate diplomas, three masters degrees, and a PhD. I am currently enrolled in a 4th masters. I have written 20 books and over 200 refereed articles. I have presented this information so that the review that follows has context. This is the worst book I have ever read. I have read tens of thousands of academic books. This is as dreadful as any self published book I have ever read. I have found out about Jordan Peterson's father in law. I found out how he mis-managed his wife's cancer diagnosis and centred on himself. This is the most pretentious nonsense I have ever read. A bloke is telling us about being a bloke. He needs to 'self heal'. He needs to read something. Please. Read something. An opinion is not real. An opinion is not true.

  9. 5 out of 5

    Michael

    If you support things like LGBT rights and do not like far-right propaganda then you are definitely not going to want to read this book. It's the sequel to 12 Rules for Life, written by the guy who no one cared about until he started building a brand for himself as the Rosa Parks of refusing to use trans people's preferred pronouns or whatever. I was so eager to let people know my opinions about this book that I waited until March 1st so I could go on Amazon Japan and click the button that says If you support things like LGBT rights and do not like far-right propaganda then you are definitely not going to want to read this book. It's the sequel to 12 Rules for Life, written by the guy who no one cared about until he started building a brand for himself as the Rosa Parks of refusing to use trans people's preferred pronouns or whatever. I was so eager to let people know my opinions about this book that I waited until March 1st so I could go on Amazon Japan and click the button that says 無料サンプルを送信 which means "send free sample" so I could get a head start reading the first ten percent like 14 hours before the actual US release date, and then I read the rest of the book elsewhere. What I can say is that Beyond Order is definitely one of the worst books to come out since 12 Rules. One of the worst chapters is titled "Rule VI: Abandon Ideology." In it, Jordan Peterson—who is a cis straight white male boomer—says he thinks the problem with the world is that "we have spent too much time, for example (much of the last fifty years), clamoring about rights, and we are no longer asking enough of the young people we are socializing," which I guess is just a standard cis straight white male boomer opinion, but I found it irritating enough to be worth noting for the following reasons: (1) As a millennial, I actually think much has been asked of young people recently—we've had higher tuition costs, we all have to major in STEM fields now (ideally computer science, which was one of my two majors by the way—the other was Japanese) or just accept that we're probably going to be broke, our careers are the ones that are disproportionately affected by things like the pandemic and even the previous financial crisis, etc.; (2) Peterson's anthropogenic global warming denialism is obviously motivated in part by the fact that he and his generation don't want to take any responsibility for putting us on the path to extinction, so his words seem totally hypocritical or at least self-serving; (3) Clamoring about rights is pretty important and has had great results in recent history, most notably for gay people (like me). Moving on, most of what Peterson explicitly says about Marxism is in the aforementioned chapter, and his opinions are garbage. Since leftism is so popular with young people these days, I think he tries to be a bit more restrained in his criticisms of leftist ideologies; for example, when he talks about how Nietzsche was totally afraid of socialism or whatever, he says "The socialism Nietzsche referred to was not the relatively mild version later popular in Britain, Scandinavia, and Canada, with its sometimes genuine emphasis on the improvement of working-class life, but the full-blown collectivism of Russia, China, and a host of smaller countries." I read that as him basically implicitly acknowledging that the redistributive policies advocated for by Bernie Sanders might be desirable or at least inoffensive to Friedrich Nietzsche if he were still around. If that's correct then that's good because Bernie was the best candidate from the past two election cycles, favored by the overwhelming majority of young voters and hated by boomers like Jordan Peterson (and unfortunately the average primary voter is a boomer of about Peterson's exact age so Bernie didn't win). However, everything else Peterson says about socialism, Marxism, Marxism-Leninism, etc. is stupid and wrong, and it's obvious that he doesn't really want the reader to "abandon ideology"; he just wants them to be right-wing, and that's probably why right-wingers love Peterson so much. If you want more examples of how totally hypocritical this book is, even though one chapter is titled "Rule III: Do Not Hide Unwanted Things in the Fog," he blocked me (@KingOfInternet) on Twitter for saying "They probably took it down for hate speech and bigotry; I think that would be a valid reason!" in a reply to his tweet about his Russian Instagram page being taken down, so now my tweets are hidden in the fog because they were unwanted (by him). I just think that proves that even he doesn't believe his own advice is worth taking, and if that's what he's believe then judging from how he's spent the last couple of years he's probably right! Jordan Peterson should put an end to his project of trying to radicalize incels, and he should also stop trying to turn people on to right-wing politics in general; the world does not need more anti-LGBT bigots, climate change deniers, Republicans (not to repeat myself), etc. It's just ridiculous to act like the problem with the world is that people are becoming too left-wing when entitled Republicans got so butthurt about Joe Biden being elected president that they raided the Capitol. If you are in the market for a self-help book, I think you should probably get one where the author doesn't rant about the perceived evils of Marxism and postmodernism or whatever. Do not read this terrible book!

  10. 5 out of 5

    Bob Lewis

    When I read and reviewed the first 12 Rules for Life book, I described it as a sort of self-help book for people who don't like self-help books. Present was the distillation of common sensical (but often unarticulated) ideas, but absent were the trite catch phrases and easy fixes that plague much of the genre. I'm pleased to report that the same can be said of this second volume. While this is ostensibly a self-help book that distills important psychological ideas into a dozen simple "rules" for When I read and reviewed the first 12 Rules for Life book, I described it as a sort of self-help book for people who don't like self-help books. Present was the distillation of common sensical (but often unarticulated) ideas, but absent were the trite catch phrases and easy fixes that plague much of the genre. I'm pleased to report that the same can be said of this second volume. While this is ostensibly a self-help book that distills important psychological ideas into a dozen simple "rules" for living a better, more meaningful, and more productive life, it's much more than that. It's a wide-ranging treatise on psychology, philosophy, theology, and occasionally even politics (though not too much, and always in a fairly balanced treatment). It's true that the rules themselves are somewhat simplistic--some might even say self-evident. And that's a fair statement. The value in such a book as this, though, is less in the list of rules as they can be read in the table of contents, but in the immeasurably rich explanations and analyses that explain--at a remarkably deep level--the sound psychological, philosophical, historical, theological, mythological, and narrative reasons for each of the rules. The author has an amazing talent for seamlessly combining important ideas from all of these disparate fields in a manner that manages to be accessible to a wide audience without ever speaking down or boring readers who are already familiar with his subjects. It's a rare book indeed that can transition so effortlessly between discussions of cognitive neuroscience to the Bible to Harry Potter and back. That's true of both this book and its predecessor (to which I also gave a five-star review). However, I have to say in all honesty, this book manages to escape the all too common pitfalls of sequels and indeed might even surpass the original (though I maintain that it's best read less as a sequel and more as a second volume of a single long work). Admittedly, some of the examples revisit subjects already familiar from the previous book (or from Peterson's other writings or lectures), but these few stories are important enough that they bear repeating. More importantly, the new material is invariably fascinating, filled with historical notes, literary analyses, scriptural interpretations, and--my personal favorites--psychological case studies. With regard to that last category, this book manages to accomplish something remarkable: it is a self-help book that does not insult the psychologically literate reader. Instead, it draws deeply from the psychological literature (particularly the psychoanalysts, though certainly not limited to them alone) and might even inspire some readers to pursue further study of psychology or even a career in clinical practice. Most importantly, the book differentiates itself from the bulk of its genre by eschewing the easy and the feel-good in favor of the real and the substantial. There are no trite mantras, no happy cliches, no greeting card philosophies. Instead, there are real--often brutal, but equally often hopeful--psychological insights. This is the kind of self-help book that could genuinely help the reader who heeds its advice, precisely because it offers oft-difficult substance rather than simple but ultimately meaningless pronouncements. At a time when much of the world seems shallowly moored at best--and completely unmoored at worst--this book is a godsend for those looking to lead a more meaningful (and with any luck, happier) existence. I cannot recommend it (and its predecessor, though you can easily read the books in any order) highly enough.

  11. 4 out of 5

    David Gonzalez Feijoo

    I'm a huge Peterson fan (and this new book does not disappoint), but perhaps I should clarify one very small point. In Rule 8 he describes a painting called "The Immaculate Conception" (by Guido Reni) at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. But he calls it "The Immaculate Conception of Mary." Perhaps he was trying to clarify a common misunderstanding. People often think that the Immaculate Conception refers to the virginal conception of Jesus. But it actually refers to the conception of Ma I'm a huge Peterson fan (and this new book does not disappoint), but perhaps I should clarify one very small point. In Rule 8 he describes a painting called "The Immaculate Conception" (by Guido Reni) at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. But he calls it "The Immaculate Conception of Mary." Perhaps he was trying to clarify a common misunderstanding. People often think that the Immaculate Conception refers to the virginal conception of Jesus. But it actually refers to the conception of Mary, the idea being that she was conceived without original sin. However, the painting in question does not depict the literal conception of Mary, which would be odd indeed. Instead, it depicts the Assumption of Mary into heaven. You can see for yourself with a simple Google search. So what gives? Why is the painting called "The Immaculate Conception"? Well, you'd need to ask a Catholic... You see, although the phrase "Immaculate Conception" refers to the conception of Mary without sin, it is also used as one of the titles of Mary. Case in point is when the Blessed Mother appeared to St Bernadette at Lourdes, France in the mid 1800's. She famously referred to herself as follows: "I am the Immaculate Conception." In other words, Guido Reni's painting is not a painting of "The Immaculate Conception OF Mary," as Peterson says. Instead, it is a painting of "The Immaculate Conception," which IS Mary. Now perhaps I am splitting hairs, but hopefully I've done so in a constructive way. Setting aside this one misplaced word, do read this book, reflect deeply on each chapter, and take its lessons to heart. P.S. Pay attention to Peterson's book recommendations. I was not disappointed to read "Infidel" by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, "Road to Wigan Pier" by George Orwell, "Crime and Punishment" by Fyodor Dostoevsky, and "The Gulag Archipelago" by Alexander Solzhenitsyn. "The Harvest of Sorrow" by Robert Conquest is next-in-line on my "want to read" list. And in "Beyond Order" he mentions "The Rape of Nanking" by Iris Chang and "Ordinary Men" by Christopher Browning (both of which I've since read), among others.

  12. 4 out of 5

    James Harling

    Nassim Nicholas Taleb, no fan of Peterson, said that "the test of originality for an idea is not the absence of one single predecessor, but the presence of multiple but incompatible ones". If 10 people say your book is unoriginal for the SAME reason, it's probably unoriginal. But if 10 people say your book is unoriginal for 10 DIFFERENT REASONS, you almost certainly have something original. Jordan Peterson's critics accuse him of being a "crypto-fascist"* who practices a "toxic form of identity p Nassim Nicholas Taleb, no fan of Peterson, said that "the test of originality for an idea is not the absence of one single predecessor, but the presence of multiple but incompatible ones". If 10 people say your book is unoriginal for the SAME reason, it's probably unoriginal. But if 10 people say your book is unoriginal for 10 DIFFERENT REASONS, you almost certainly have something original. Jordan Peterson's critics accuse him of being a "crypto-fascist"* who practices a "toxic form of identity politics" while Jordan-junkies like myself praise him for becoming a bulwark against the rising tide of ideological thinking, especially that of totalitarianism and nihilism and finding the middle-ground between liberal and conservative views, basically arguing that there's a time to be a liberal, there's a time to be conservative, wisdom is knowing the difference and the only way you can get that wisdom is by exposing yourself to as many different viewpoints as possible because you're not smart enough to figure it all out by yourself. That you have such contrasting views on the same person is a strong indicator that you have somebody who's definitely an original and my highlights are evidence of that. For much larger books, I will make an average of 170 highlights about 20,000 words in total. For this book, I made 354 highlights of 51,000 words in total because there was so much thought-provoking content. *I had to look up "crypto-fascist". I thought it referred to any ANTIFA member (ironically standing for 'anti-fascist') who traded in Bitcoin. But it turns out that it refers to the "secret support for, or admiration of, fascism." Who'da'thunk it?

  13. 4 out of 5

    AttackGirl

    I knew you could do it Once again I am very pleased with the display and offering from a well read thinking man. More later after I have time to absorb all. When will Jordon start his organization as suggested. Move up based on reading and mentoring other men, participating.... Come on Jordan. Second Early Morning Reading Well Jordan I made notes on this reading, and will write them without narrative but just blunt comments. I am sure you will know where in the book I am referring as will others wit I knew you could do it Once again I am very pleased with the display and offering from a well read thinking man. More later after I have time to absorb all. When will Jordon start his organization as suggested. Move up based on reading and mentoring other men, participating.... Come on Jordan. Second Early Morning Reading Well Jordan I made notes on this reading, and will write them without narrative but just blunt comments. I am sure you will know where in the book I am referring as will others with understanding. Your introduction excuse sets a bad tone to start the book of calling men to better lives of responsibility when you will not face the demon in the mirror openly and honestly. Addiction is addiction, whether that be alcohol, running, eating, drugs, sex, work, etc the sickness calls for honest self evaluation of facing that demon you have chosen to ride when your wife got sick and you allowed your adult daughter to continue your excuse line. Stop it. You chose and are choosing to be the Father for all the men of the world so that also means that you stand up honestly not travel around the country and world running from that DNA demon that is you. Everyone sees and is reading your excuses and attempts of the Hero to run and not face his responsibilities as you call for other men to so stop it now. Speak the language everyone understands. You have no power over addiction and only through help from your higher power are you going to make it so do it honestly not running scare from one doctors to the next in another country you are less known. Can you say Betty Ford! As much as we discuss archetypal hero’s from the lineage of Joseph Campbell we are still only men only humans so humble yourself you did not make your DNA. If you are going to go on a bender just do it and then get yourself right in the head. Again get the help of others who have faced the demon and they are in that 12 step program. From all of your reading you do not know we as humans without the inter fear acne of the meat industry should only be eating greens, vegetables and NO MEET. The reason people lose weight on the paleo diet and soon become very ill after is because you need grain to cleanse the protein/poison out of your organs your body was not meant to process meat. It is cancer in the making. Try fasting and get on natural salads. Even the largest cows eat grass! So trying to get clean while under a coma so you dont have to face the pain of insult of preaching to the world while you decide to Escape the pain of reality. Instead stand up be the man and get a plan. Get a sponsor and Russia in the winter how were the gulags? Did you get you any closer to that plagiarist bread in the pocket storyline stealing Solzhenitsyn? I am surprised you did not catch his theft of Dostoevsky’s work but why would anyone unless they have really read the works and wondered where they had heard about that little piece of pocket bread before. Have you considered visits to the Concentration camps in Europe or Asia? Maybe going to see how the Japanese men really even in todays world treat women. But perhaps you already understand that “Work Makes You Free” as you suggest to all the men to get busy and carry that heavy load. Perhaps the peace loving, Catholic Church supporting, USA freedom and beggar of peace dog loving momma’s boy true hero Hitler knew all along. So I am glad to see you are applying the Hero motif to the a movie the younger people can grasp but if you research the Aztec ruins you will see the field of play with the two hole/rings and the rules so you will know she did not just create the game but just discussed the men lost their heads real to play. https://www.ancient.eu/article/604/th... Now as far as flying well you would have to read and believe The Acts of Peter, the ancient text of Simon stretching out his hands and flying infront of Nero causing Peter to strike him down. So is the desire to get the money and fame worth your sobriety, your family, or are you going to play the motif of the troubled martyr why not just cut off an ear? So I think you could recommend more of your website and reading material so people have a clue what you are discussing which normally in books is a discussion of the book and topic then you lead into what you want to say about it. The book is way to long and comprehensive for the average reader and then throw in the uneducated well then you have trouble since they recommend you write at grade 10 so not to intimidated the readers. So I recommend to just try a different writing template. I am sure your editor was extremely intimidated or would have recommended these basic changes. How did people fair with the 12 rules which is a lot considering they cannot recall the basic 10 commandments let alone the 613 or perhaps you could have taken it to the original text and foundation of the commandments back to King Hammurabi and then the next book a little further back to the oldest known law. I did notice you stated exactly what I recommended to President Trump which was to not tire himself with each thing that comes up as the people test him but to allow the hierarchy to work which is why we have it. The bible is thousands of years of wisdom at the fingertips and all people have to do it read it. We have established: City, County, States, then Federal Govt then maybe a complete briefing to the President, definitely NOT every persons comment is elevated to the exhausted representative of the people. Which is what I have recommended to you, why are you fighting me on this? Get the organization set up. Get the pyramid based on readings and volunteer, responsibility, mentoring, travel, projects etc. The men are waiting and needing and you are making up some storyline lie...as you cry; I don’t know why which is a complete lie, an embarrassment and absurd when you know exactly why. So get busy! Get the people signed up I and started so they feel like they belong to other men, to society to a purpose, to education and awareness and see how fast it grows because you wont be around but your organization if set up properly will be ...forever well for a very long time. Look at the Masons, Lions etc... And now that you have confirmed your room, office and house is in order well... You can find me on linkedin if you need suggestions.

  14. 5 out of 5

    Beni Vitai

    Didn't expect it, but this was really good. Challenged me a lot. I'm more liberal in temperament (at least for now), and I tend to struggle with conservative types, and am often quite quick to criticise organisations (especially my religious community) - I'm always ready to make changes, but without inheriting traditions. This taught me to actively seek perspectives different to my own and learn from those who value traditions, as the chances are they understand the meaning of the traditions bet Didn't expect it, but this was really good. Challenged me a lot. I'm more liberal in temperament (at least for now), and I tend to struggle with conservative types, and am often quite quick to criticise organisations (especially my religious community) - I'm always ready to make changes, but without inheriting traditions. This taught me to actively seek perspectives different to my own and learn from those who value traditions, as the chances are they understand the meaning of the traditions better than I do, and you can't "break the rules" without understanding the meta-rules (e.g. Jesus healing on the Sabbath). Another thing it taught me is the importance of commitment. Tbh at times lately I've been burnt out with my Physics degree, as I don't plan to go into the field after my studies; but this book reminded of the importance of commitment, even when the thing we commit to doesn't end up being what we'd imagined it would be. And I see now that this degree is less about the content I learn, and more about the person I become in the process: disciplined, reliable, patient, honest, person of integrity etc. And funnily enough, since framing it that way, I'm enjoying the content of the degree a lot more for its own sake. It's not a means to an end anymore; it's a journey that I'm learning to enjoy. Lately I've thought how I'm a part of one small religious community out of hundreds of thousands on our planet, which is a small corner of our solar system, which is a small corner of our galaxy which is... etc. So how can I be sure it's the "right one"? But I realised that's the wrong question; because maybe faith is more like marriage, where you're all in, for better or for worse, and rather than investing energy your whole life wondering whether you married "the right person", you focus your energy on getting to know the other person and building a deeper connection. And that seems to apply for career and creative pursuits as well: if you've always got your eye on an escape route, then you never get to see the thing/the other in its/their entirety. I could go on, but what was great about this book is that it didn't allow me to just move on to the next book; it forced me to confront some of my fundamental beliefs (by way of my behaviour), and has already had a positive impact on my relationships and sense of belonging in the world. And that, to me, is what makes a great book. Long story short: I really liked it, so you might enjoy it too.

  15. 5 out of 5

    Tom Sudan

    Ordering your Life shall encompass pre-ordering my book which is, Beyond Order. Have you cleaned up your room which is Beyond Order? Have you tried Ordering what is Beyond Order? If not you are way Beyond disorder... JPB

  16. 4 out of 5

    Catherine Stormblessed

    I cannot fully solidify how and why all of the intimate parts of my life feel so drawn to this book but I connected so deeply to this second addition of Peterson's 12 Rules For Life. This one spoke to me even more personally than the first edition. His first book highlights how too much chaos can be unproductive for our personal growth. This book puts chaos in a different light and emphasizes how it is a quintessential part of our individual progression when handled properly. I have never liked s I cannot fully solidify how and why all of the intimate parts of my life feel so drawn to this book but I connected so deeply to this second addition of Peterson's 12 Rules For Life. This one spoke to me even more personally than the first edition. His first book highlights how too much chaos can be unproductive for our personal growth. This book puts chaos in a different light and emphasizes how it is a quintessential part of our individual progression when handled properly. I have never liked self help books. However, these feel different. Peterson tells me things that I already know. But he does it in such a way that feels very personal and empowering. He tells you the why, how, and what. He also speaks as if there is always more to give. His thoughts are intimate enough that you feel a part of the conversation that is ongoing for different individuals. His words remind me of my own father. The important father figures in my life have given me a sense of value and purpose that have helped me through difficult times far too complicated to properly describe. I teared up multiple times reading this book. Maybe this sounds dramatic but I genuinely felt my soul drawn to a higher calling and purpose. Something that is innate that wants to come forth. I felt so seen reading this. There's far too much I could write about so I will just leave this review with some quotes I found particularly inspiring: - “You are not only something that is. You are something that is becoming — and the potential extent of that becoming also transcends your understanding.” - “We need to understand the role of art, and stop thinking about it as an option, or a luxury, or worse, an affection. Art is the bedrock of culture itself. It is the foundation of the process by which we unite ourselves psychologically, and come to establish productive peace with others." - “With careful searching, with careful attention, you might tip the balance toward opportunity and against obstacle sufficiently so that life is clearly worth living, despite its fragility and suffering. If you truly wanted, perhaps you would receive, if you asked. If you truly sought, perhaps you would find what you seek. If you knocked, truly wanting to enter, perhaps the door would open. But there will be times in your life when it will take everything you have to face what is in front of you, instead of hiding away from a truth so terrible that the only thing worse is the falsehood you long to replace it with. Do not hide unwanted things in the fog.” - “An artist constantly risks falling fully into chaos, instead of transforming it.” - “When you are visited by chaos and swallowed up; when nature curses you or someone you love with illness; or when tyranny rends asunder something of value that you have built, it is salutary to know the rest of the story. All of that misfortune is only the bitter half of the tale of existence, without taking note of the heroic element of redemption or the nobility of the human spirit requiring a certain responsibility to shoulder. We ignore that addition to the story at our peril, because life is so difficult that losing sight of the heroic part of existence could cost us everything.” - “To have others attend to what you find important or interesting is to validate, first, the importance of what you are attending to, but second, and more crucially, to validate you as a respected center of conscious experience and contributor to the collective world.”

  17. 4 out of 5

    Ragnar

    Loved and enjoyed every bit of this book! Thank you Mr. Peterson. ❤️❤️ I cannot put into words the profound impact you had and still have on my life, because of you, i took responsibility for my own life, started moving, trying to make the world a better place, by just being a little bit kinder, compassionate and understanding, ( first towards my own Self ) you made me see and understand that despite the suffering we see, despite the ugliness and injustices that we see, we as individuals and as a Loved and enjoyed every bit of this book! Thank you Mr. Peterson. ❤️❤️ I cannot put into words the profound impact you had and still have on my life, because of you, i took responsibility for my own life, started moving, trying to make the world a better place, by just being a little bit kinder, compassionate and understanding, ( first towards my own Self ) you made me see and understand that despite the suffering we see, despite the ugliness and injustices that we see, we as individuals and as a species can overcome, can transcend that! You inspired me to make each day meaningful, to constantly improve myself, but only in comparison to who I was yesterday, not who someone is today.... Love you ❤️❤️❤️ God Bless you and your loved ones 📿📿❤️❤️ After all, the world was here before I got here, it doesn’t owe me anything, I owe it !

  18. 5 out of 5

    LadyS

    In the sequel to the first book in the series, Dr. JP does not miss a beat in giving more knowledge, wisdom and common sense. I think this book is more brilliant than the last and I am a better person for reading it. There are some books that can not be fully absorbed with just one encounter. So, I will read it again (this time with intent to apply the principles) and then I will augment my review.

  19. 5 out of 5

    Ratnah Tanakoor

    This is probably my most personal review, yet. Maybe it is not even a review. This is the translation of my inner conversation, wrapped by thoughts and feelings, into words. In fact, prior starting this review of Beyond Order: 12 More Rules For Life by Dr. Jordan B. Peterson, I went to look for my preceding note on 12 Rules For Life: An Antidote to Chaos which he published a few years back. I startled myself to find that exactly a year ago and a little more precisely, around the same dates of la This is probably my most personal review, yet. Maybe it is not even a review. This is the translation of my inner conversation, wrapped by thoughts and feelings, into words. In fact, prior starting this review of Beyond Order: 12 More Rules For Life by Dr. Jordan B. Peterson, I went to look for my preceding note on 12 Rules For Life: An Antidote to Chaos which he published a few years back. I startled myself to find that exactly a year ago and a little more precisely, around the same dates of last April, I had finished the book and wrote my truest feelings about it, which you can find here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show... This is one of the rare occasions where I am finding myself to be vulnerably, yet bravely, turning inwards and performing a self-assessment eventually leaving me with that similar feeling to when I would be reading the assignments of a few modules that I completed only one year before moving onto the next level. But then, with Beyond Order, it is not exactly an achievement, but rather, a personal enhancement. More so, when I compare Beyond Order to his preceding book, I can only empathise with the chaos that Dr. Peterson had to endure. This book contains his insights on how to deal with chaos and care for the human psyche. The further I delved into it, the more this book revealed itself as my own Memento Mori. Told by the man who has been humbled by life's fragility, that is, the inevitability of death and permanent loss, Dr. Jordan Peterson shares the wisdom he gathered throughout that rough phase. I have only witnessed this as an act of kindness coming from a generous side of him as he shares those discernments with the aim for us to courageously face chaos. This book has hit home for me because less than a month ago, I have lost an uncle whereby I have been struggling with grief and found myself pondering about the void after a perpetual loss. I was also shaken to see my closest ones in deep suffering while in the background the world has been experiencing its own havoc with this Covid-19 Pandemic. While 12 Rules For Life was an endearing shift from my "cheerful nihilist" side to a reconsideration of my value system, Beyond Order has only compelled me to turn within, understand my psyche and identify my inner demons, and practice self kindness: to take care of myself as if I am the person for whom I was responsible for. I can only be thankful to Dr. Jordan B. Peterson for this book, and I would love to carry on by jotting down my personal notes: 1) Rule 1: Do Not Carelessly Denigrate Social Institutions or Creative Achievement I have always possibly taken for granted the extent to which supporting creative outlets is mandatory. It is imperative. Not that this book changed my life, but the scientific reasoning and arguments put forward in this chapter opened my horizons to new perspectives such as recognising its significance on the human psyche as we grow older. I will just put it this way: This was better than the quote "live life with no regrets" hehe. 2) Rule 2: Imagine Who You Could Be, and Then Aim Single-Mindedly at That I absolutely hated this chapter and see why I am not biased ? This Rule could have remained just a quote. 3) Rule 3: Do Not Hide Unwanted Things in the Fog Ouch. This one was very dark and hit sensitive parts of my core. Know how your parents or other elders tell you that "your grandma wanted this for you and made me promise this ... on her deathbed?" Oh well, I do not want to be that grandma or pass on ancestral trauma. Own up to what you want. 4) Rule 4: Notice that Opportunity Lurks Where Responsibility Has Been Achieved This one is a complex one because it is so easy to say "let go, move on". I don't think that the world would have witnessed any cruelty or animosity if letting go and moving on was that easy. If you believe in quotes like that one, I urge you to read Jordan Peterson because life is no fairy tale. 5) Rule 5: Do Not Do What You Hate Further to Rule 4, we all think that doing what we love is easy. I am still trying to follow my passion for instance, but arrgh, it is endlessly frustrating because I am breaking myself over and over in order to construct that self that I might eventually love everything about. How easy is that ? 6) Rule 6: Abandon Ideology Recommended for anyone who is dogmatic and pedantic, or if you have been a victim of that for growing up in a restricted environment - this is your "live and let live" wrapped with layers of psychological insights about human behaviour and our contribution on to the world. 7) Rule 7: Work as Hard as You Possibly Can on at Least One Thing and See What Happens From where I come from, I have always been reminded about this one, then when I was getting there, I was tamed to be part of the system and the working force. If it was not the case for you, then consider yourself lucky. However, I acknowledge it is never too late to get there. 8) Rule 8: Try to Make One Room in Your Home as Beautiful as Possible I absolutely loved the importance that Dr. J B Peterson allocated to aesthetics and vibrance in this chapter. This is indeed not to be taken for granted. 9) Rule 9: If Old Memories Still Upset You, Write Them Down Carefully and Completely No, I will rather not tell you about my demons. Ouch! I will just say that it got me vulnerable. I cried and I am aware of my healing path. Getting there. 10) Rule 10: Plan and Work Diligently to Maintain the Romance in Your Relationship Haha, if you are thinking about receiving dating advices here, then you are wrong. But, the whole importance of building a solid support system is explored here with the beauty of intimacy revealed. I loved it to bits! 11) Rule 11: Do Not Allow Yourself to Become Resentful, Deceitful, or Arrogant Ouch. Again - the same feelings as my comments under Rule 9. This one was the longest, and toughest. 12) Rule 12: Be Grateful in Spite of Your Suffering Refer to all the Good Morning posts that your aunts send you on WhatsApp family group chats. They are right, haha. Just start the day afresh but be mindful of the other 11 Rules. Of course, this is not a comprehensive list, every individual experience is unique. We are the same species on the overall genetic grid, yes, but we are all built differently. I have absolutely loved this book because it bears all the psychological baggage of why we have always been asked to turn our attention inwards. The Buddhists are right.

  20. 5 out of 5

    Lisa

    I like what he says about speaking the truth and being grateful and his whole chapter on relationships is really helpful. But as an Orthodox Christian I find his metaphysical ideas to be quite clumsy. I also think he leans more towards masculine toughness for no good reason except his own particularities. He talks a lot about us needing to be tough and taking on burdens, but talks very little about the dangers of unnecessary over-exposure to a world that's incredibly dangerous and evil, and that I like what he says about speaking the truth and being grateful and his whole chapter on relationships is really helpful. But as an Orthodox Christian I find his metaphysical ideas to be quite clumsy. I also think he leans more towards masculine toughness for no good reason except his own particularities. He talks a lot about us needing to be tough and taking on burdens, but talks very little about the dangers of unnecessary over-exposure to a world that's incredibly dangerous and evil, and that by his own admission. He thinks numbness is the same thing as bravery. He hardly talks about the necessity for filtering one's own experiences for the sake of security, innocence, sensitivity, purity and communion. He hardly talks about grace, about meditation and quiet and submitting to one's community or family. He's fascinated by dreams, horrors, totalitarianism, tragedy - when instead it's my opinion that yes, we should in fact look away from these things a lot of the time. At least most of us should. This is not to say we can afford to ignore the possibility of these things fully, of course, but we must also not necessarily look for them like he does (look at how his house is decorated) nor speak them into being or think that being able to tolerate thinking about them is inherently virtuous. I think it's his ideas about psychoanalysis that makes him think that shedding light on something is inherently helpful - but it's not, not inherently. The radical left intuits these criticisms of him, his lack of appreciation for feminine values, and that's part of why he's made so many enemies among them. They hate his focus on competence and dominance. I think his focus is great, especially for men, but JBP would find the soothing balance we all crave in the Church, in the embrace of the Mother of God. He should learn to submit to something higher than himself... and his severe and bitter individualism will melt away like snow on a warm day. I'll keep praying for him.

  21. 5 out of 5

    Rory Saunders

    The big daddy of internet controversy has a new book and it's okay. Firstly I'd like to clarify my views on the author as he's such a polarizing figure. I'm a fan of Jordan Peterson's self-betterment advice, particularly when it comes to psychology, philosophy, and responsibility. I think his advice on nutrition and his forays into politics are ill advised or even absurd. I don't think he's a horrible transphobe or misogynist, and I don't think he deserves the flak he gets from left wing media. The big daddy of internet controversy has a new book and it's okay. Firstly I'd like to clarify my views on the author as he's such a polarizing figure. I'm a fan of Jordan Peterson's self-betterment advice, particularly when it comes to psychology, philosophy, and responsibility. I think his advice on nutrition and his forays into politics are ill advised or even absurd. I don't think he's a horrible transphobe or misogynist, and I don't think he deserves the flak he gets from left wing media. He does associate with a lot of hard-line conservatives, but I'm not sure how much of that is a consequence of the fact that they will interview him without attacking him. Anyway, the book. I enjoyed the previous 12 rules a lot more than these. I found that the book, particularly including the context of the last book, was repetitive and overly metaphorical. Some of the passages were insightful and I didn't disagree per se with any of the rules, but more clinical examples and general explanation would have been illuminating. There was way too much chat about chaos dragons and archetypal representations for my taste. I also think that more of an exploration of his personal struggles with drug addiction would have been more interesting. It's hard to accept someone's life advice when they have been hospitalized for benzo withdrawals for the last 2 years. I don't mean to make light of his struggles, as he has overcome a lot. However, his moralizing about fixing your own life before tackling other people's problems does seem a bit hypocritical given the circumstances. Overall, the book just wasn't as inspired as the first installment. I wouldn't recommend reading it unless you are a huge fan of his. Despite my low review, I'm glad that he is healthy again and returning to public discourse.

  22. 4 out of 5

    Andrés Astudillo

    Somehow I managed to get this book before it got out, at least in Ecuador. Do you have to read Maps of meaning before reading this two books? No, but I would recommend it. The first set of rules (for which the author does not obligue people to follow them in any way whatsoever) is meant to order a life. Some people give 1 star ratings to Dr. Peterson, because he recommends stupid stuff such as "ordering your room" or "doing the dishes". Well, you narrow minded bastards, have you ever seen a depres Somehow I managed to get this book before it got out, at least in Ecuador. Do you have to read Maps of meaning before reading this two books? No, but I would recommend it. The first set of rules (for which the author does not obligue people to follow them in any way whatsoever) is meant to order a life. Some people give 1 star ratings to Dr. Peterson, because he recommends stupid stuff such as "ordering your room" or "doing the dishes". Well, you narrow minded bastards, have you ever seen a depressive person with a neat and clean room? (and there are tons of examples but Im working) or Why do we run away from people that have not their lives put up together, or feel pity about them? Why do we ask them "is everything all right"?. There are things that we as human beings share. One of them is the capacity to order and control stuff and societies. That's the point of learning how to clean the room. Since the beginning we've been trying to control society through myth, religion, and politics... later on we tried to control the material world (not as Madonna's song, but as barionic matter) through science, that's why we have paleogenetics and quantum mechanics. To order is to know, to order is to segregate and later on add values; its also a mental process. However, and here's the introduction to the sequel, chaos is needed. We need a bit of those, like salt and pepper. "Every rule was once a creative act, breaking other rules.”, he states. Is that a lie? Hell no. We are part of an evolutionary process -that is still taking place- and our civilization is a reflection of our brains: we have left wing and right wing, we have muslims and catholics, democrats and republicans, and if you want, you could add more examples if you like, such as "Ying and Yang", or "Cain and Abel", or "Osiris and Seth", or "God and Satan"... every myth has this.... why? Maybe because our brains likes to see the world that way? Maybe because our brains were created that way? There are many answers from many disciplines, but the thing is, that is what is real. Societies are built in different opinions, every once in a while chaos erupts and somehow we create a new set of rules adapted to that particular event, and history goes on. And all of this because Dr. Peterson reminds us to clean or freaking rooms. Yes, it is important to do that. We sleep in the same bed for years, and that precisely makes the action important, thus it is no longer part of what we may call trivial. The book is focused this way, to see beyond order and find that chaos has no moral, it doesnt care if we call it "good" or "bad", is what we do after it comes, is every decision that we make or we do not what's important. We need critic in order to learn. But, there are opinions that are a waste of time. I've seen people rating this book (without reading the first two) with 1 star, and added to a shelf called "Right wing bullshit". Is that fair? Dr. Peterson clearly states that we need both points of view to emerge. That is why the world is still polarized no matter how much time passes. We care about people we do not know, a certain amount of -social- justice is linked to our evolutionary vestigies, but it doesn't mean that Im gonna trash businesses because of that. That's why we are know fucked up, almost everywhere: we have BLM, Antifa, conflicts in Israel, and in Colombia in the recent days. All we gotta do this think, and know that we are all part not just of a material world, but a part of a multicultural, and diverse world, made up of people just like we are, and sometimes, we have to push through a lot of shit to get our own worlds together.

  23. 5 out of 5

    joel

    In a political climate where even mentioning truth without being sardonic will get you scoffed out of a humanities classroom, Peterson has crafted an entire arsenal for anyone willing to fight the good fight - whether that be creating order by taming chaos (12 Rules), or transforming order when it has become too rigid and stifling (Beyond Order) I’m just going to put a small excerpt here from Rule 5: Fortify Your Position. ‘When culture disintegrates — because it refuses to be aware of its own pat In a political climate where even mentioning truth without being sardonic will get you scoffed out of a humanities classroom, Peterson has crafted an entire arsenal for anyone willing to fight the good fight - whether that be creating order by taming chaos (12 Rules), or transforming order when it has become too rigid and stifling (Beyond Order) I’m just going to put a small excerpt here from Rule 5: Fortify Your Position. ‘When culture disintegrates — because it refuses to be aware of its own pathology; because the visionary hero is absent — it descends into the chaos that underlies everything. Under such conditions, the individual can dive voluntarily as deeply as he or she dares into the depths and rediscover the eternal principles renewing vision and life. The alternative is despair, corruption, and nihilism – thoughtless subjugation to the false word of totalitarian utopianism and life as a miserable, lying, and resentful slave.’

  24. 5 out of 5

    Tom VanVrede

    Two parts, March post-read review, and February pre-release thoughts. - March 17 2021 - post-read review - I have completed Beyond Order, now, shortly after a full study of Maps of Meaning. Beyond order is more up-beat, optimistic, than 12 Rules for Life. Chapters that significantly resonated with me include: - Overture - Do not hide unwanted things in the fog - Notice that opportunity lurks where responsibility has been abdicated (wow what chapter title heh) - Abandon Ideology - Work as hard as you po Two parts, March post-read review, and February pre-release thoughts. - March 17 2021 - post-read review - I have completed Beyond Order, now, shortly after a full study of Maps of Meaning. Beyond order is more up-beat, optimistic, than 12 Rules for Life. Chapters that significantly resonated with me include: - Overture - Do not hide unwanted things in the fog - Notice that opportunity lurks where responsibility has been abdicated (wow what chapter title heh) - Abandon Ideology - Work as hard as you possibly can on at least one thing and see what happens - Try to make one room in your home as beautiful as possible - Do not allow yourself to become resentful, deceitful, or arrogant I did not come away from 12 Rules for Life with a desire to re-read it again in a complete straight-through approach, however I have made quick reference many times since. With Beyond Order, in reflection, I feel a desire to read the entire thing start-to-finish, again, soon. Perhaps this is also because of an interest to tie ideas between Beyond Order to Maps of Meaning which is a very intense, ultimately positive and forward-looking work. Significant stories abound. The story of the young black client who had ended his relationship abruptly and needed deep unconscious work, the woman who sought to help psychiatric patients in the hospital, the server in the restaurant. And notably, his own deep struggle and confessions of vulnerability, and expressions of hope. Peterson himself notes, when engaged in writing, there's a difference between "thou shalt not" as a set of law to restrict action, but this does not provide as tangible and forward-looking steps or inspiration, as a spirit of "thou shalt", or, "try this, see what happens." Refer to the rule 7: "Work as hard as you possibly can on at least one thing and see what happens". The book is now released for barely two weeks, some seem to be reading it quickly, some processing it slowly. In the news and book review space, there yet persists this robotic din, it sounds like "you can safely ignore Jordan Peterson", "controversial", "alt-right", "charlatan", "grifter", (see The Guardian, MacLeans, et al.) enough to give one a migraine. In this moment, considering Beyond Order, people towing that line will be at their weakest and most nitpicking. If I had to criticize, one time, then this is it, and is very trivial to use as criticism: the flow of the book certainly has a sequential flow, and appears consciously intended. But for people who would pick up the book and on first read, might read it in any numbered order, will find themselves missing a few points. I always advocate a review of the original inspired list of 42 rules from Quora; and while Beyond Order continues in the track of 12 Rules for Life, the number 12 doesn't divide evenly into 40 or 42. So, this may be the last of the "rules for life" or another may come about. Whatever the case, standing alone, this is an encouraging book. - Feb 18 2021 - pre-release thoughts - It's bizarre how there are book reviews for this, given the book is unreleased. The previous book (and only I can recall?) I ever pre-ordered was just recently released: CG Jung's Black Books, shipped in October 2020. On Amazon, prior to the date of shipment, their product page disallowed product reviews (sensibly IMHO). Moving on... This is likely to be a notable work. Lots of fan-base interest, and great reception on 12 Rules. A superficial first thought is, is it "as good as" 12 Rules? Ah, but it does not make much difference to me. One could expect the direction will be different, falling under the "beyond order" frame, and so be adaptive of "the new", "the novel". Again, with respect to the previous book, I think "it is a companion to 12 Rules", as it falls within the original Quora 42 rules list. Yet, while it's from the quora list, and it's "12 more rules", Jordan Peterson is far more of a left-wing philosophical type, a known prolific adventuring scientist, researcher, if one is familiar with his primary work. I say the left-wing bit partly because of personal bias (I am relatively far left) and with all due respect to those who like him who consider themselves right-wing, conservative, etc. Given his own current life and transformation, conscious/unconscious experiences, I might risk a hope that this will "be better than" 12 Rules. That's just my personal take. Much love for the original 42 rules list, such an attitude-transforming list, and good food for meditation. Let's see how "Beyond Order" as a motif goes; chaos is a welcome part of my life, habitually seek the unknown, so this is something personally preferred over "antidote to chaos". I am curious. I guess, this amounts to a hopeful, pre-review prediction. Best of luck to Jordan Peterson in this release, hope it's received well.

  25. 4 out of 5

    Noir

    Rule 4:Notice that opportunity lurks where responsibility has been abdicated Satisfaction comes from accomplishing that which is difficult to accomplish. Opportunities for doing something worthwhile arise from chaos (something is broken and it needs to be fixed). I agree with this principle when it comes to the fact that there must be deeper meaning in everything you do in order to keep you going. Hence this amazing quote: "Maybe you are a nihilistic death-metal punk. You are deeply skeptical and Rule 4:Notice that opportunity lurks where responsibility has been abdicated Satisfaction comes from accomplishing that which is difficult to accomplish. Opportunities for doing something worthwhile arise from chaos (something is broken and it needs to be fixed). I agree with this principle when it comes to the fact that there must be deeper meaning in everything you do in order to keep you going. Hence this amazing quote: "Maybe you are a nihilistic death-metal punk. You are deeply skeptical and pessimistic. You find meaning nowhere. You hate everything, just on principle. But then your favorite nihilistic death-metal punk band lead guitarist and his bandmates start to blast out their patterned harmonies—each in alignment with the other—and you are caught! “Ah, I do not believe in anything—but, God, that music!” And the lyrics are destructive and nihilistic and cynical and bitter and hopeless but it does not matter, because the music beckons and calls to your spirit, and fills it with the intimation of meaning, and moves you, so that you align yourself with the patterns, and you nod your head and tap your feet to the beat, participating despite yourself." However I do have an issue with the work hard grind all day productivity culture nowadays; which tries by all means to keep people occupied constantly and deceive themselves that just because they are busy it must mean that what they're doing is actually worthwhile. And while I do find myself buried under many hobbies, preoccupations and interests I am also contemplating the Zen idea of stillness. So, it seems to me that Peterson is sometimes pushing into that direction (encouraging people to always do something) although I find that the message is not as toxic and it carries perhaps a more positive message ('occupy your time with something meaningful that brings you closer to who you want to be' or 'don’t do things that you perceive as time wasters'). Rule 3: Do not hide unwanted things under the fog The fog is useful at covering what we know exists but don't want to see. Like all the dust accumulated under the cupboard or all the socks under the bed. The fog is self-generated to aid you in continuing to lie to yourself and therefore spare your own feelings. Why would you want to look all your demons in the face and have to fight all that you have avoided for so long? You are not confrontational, you say to yourself, so you let the demons hang around, you feed them with your superfluous ego and watch them grow bigger and multiply. I've heard so many times that being direct and confrontational is a mere personality trait (and not something you have to work for) and thus it is neutral and so not necessarily desirable. Haha, sure. Keep telling yourself that being slimy is actually a virtue, shroud yourself in the false idea that people will somehow get your subtle smirks and read your mind with regards to the things even you don’t know you want. "Your strategy, under such conditions? Show your disappointment whenever someone close to you makes you unhappy; allow yourself the luxury and pleasure of resentment when something does not go your way; ensure that the person who has transgressed against you is frozen out by your disapproval; force them to discover with as much difficulty as possible exactly what they have done to disappoint you; and, finally, let them grope around blindly in the fog that you have generated around yourself until they stumble into and injure themselves on the sharp hidden edges of your unrevealed preferences and dreams." "So, what might you do—what should you do—as an alternative to hiding things in the fog? Admit to your feelings" Rule 2: Imagine who you could be, and then aim single-mindedly at that Potential is terrifying. The idea of an unmanifested self, lurking in the shadow of your present condition is unsettling. It is not easy to take the risk of imagining what you could be, for in doing so you may set yourself up for either disappointment (by setting the bar too high) or risk withholding your true capacity to excel (by setting the bar too low). Which is it going to be? Would you rather be a disappointed achiever or an accomplished loser? Or perhaps, you'd rather be a traveler with no destination; that way you're never in the wrong place. As for the inevitability of suffering in life…here is where I fail to fully comprehend Peterson. I subscribe to a more optimistic camp. I also think of my goals as being more spiritual than material as well as see the challenges of life in a rather relativistic way, being more in tune with the yogic way of explaining things. However, I do see huge overlaps between Peterson's theories and what I've come to believe so far with regards to holding yourself accountable for your past, present and future. Rule 1: Do not carelessly denigrate social institutions or creative achievement It is easy to criticize that which you do not understand, to shun that which you cannot achieve and to destroy that which reminds you of your weakness. The lessons in this chapter reminded me my teenage years, of the desire to rebel, the need to stand up for myself and prove that I am unique and in being so, to demonstrate that none of the rules apply to me. When you are the victim and you think you see deeper than anybody else, you abandon the system and start playing by your own rules, you're proud that you cracked the system but you're too stupid and confused to look beyond your arrogance and wonder why you do what you do. Rules are not only useful, they describe a paradigm. There were many times when I had certain ideas in my mind only to find out that there exists a name for that concept, like a certain philosophy or aesthetic, and that there are others who have elaborated on it and defined it and structured it; this always felt like such a victory. Thus, by setting and following 'rules' one can live their own reality and when those 'rules' are mastered they can be transcended in order to achieve a creative state, that allows us to break away from the old into the new. I believe Peterson wanted to teach some humility. It is not right to dismiss the collective efforts of others just because you do not understand how it can benefit you and it is certainly advisable that while you figure out your own rules, it is better to follow the rules of others than to follow no rules at all. It is also advisable to give some credit where credit is due and to show some respect to those who established the stability which you now take for granted.

  26. 4 out of 5

    Benoit Lelièvre

    Well, that sure was... a more accurate reflection of Jordan Peterson's media personality than his previous book. When I read 12 Rules for Life, I couldn't reconcile what I was reading with the man who wanted to enforce marriage to appease incel rage. But it makes a little bit more sense here. Jordan Peterson believes in structure more than anything else. That's why he believes in the Bible and the rules it provided to Occidental society. From personal living to established social order. But this Well, that sure was... a more accurate reflection of Jordan Peterson's media personality than his previous book. When I read 12 Rules for Life, I couldn't reconcile what I was reading with the man who wanted to enforce marriage to appease incel rage. But it makes a little bit more sense here. Jordan Peterson believes in structure more than anything else. That's why he believes in the Bible and the rules it provided to Occidental society. From personal living to established social order. But this book is more of a manifesto for a partially misunderstood old grouch and the tenets of a personal philosophy. It's about moving beyond structure, so sometimes it's appealing and sometimes it's utterly disastrous, like most people are. There is great advice in this book like "do not hide unwanted things in the fog" (don't avoid thinking about unpleasant things) and "Try to make one room in your home as beautiful as possible" (try to create beauty outside the confines of art to establish your relationship to it), but it's somewhat defined by the weirder and more noxious stuff. Notably his weird fixation with living one's life like you were the hero of a myth. I get why he says that. It allows you to keep a moral structure to how to live you life and to situate yourself., but let's be real: it's terrible advice. Not everyone is a dragon to slay. Sometimes you have to compromise with the dragon or become the dragon's pal. Some people have to figure a way to live with a fire breather. Life does not resemble mythology most times and drilling people to think that is to drill a legion of corny assholes who think of themselves too seriously. His hatred of ideology is very weird too since his though system is basically an ideology based on personal mythology. That's why he's so rigid about it. ANYWAY I have somewhat of a soft spot for the guy, so he can be corny on my watch and I'll still take the time to sort the good from the bad. He's not an evil right wing nut. He's just an old man who wants to do good, but feels overwhelmed by the shitload of social changes. I think we can somewhat all relate.

  27. 4 out of 5

    Maximillian

    Listened to the talk about them not fully expanded but the ideas were interesting.

  28. 5 out of 5

    Roxanne

    To say that Jordan Peterson is a prophet may sound like hyperbole, but when a writer can conjure ancient Roman and Greek parables, biblical passages, and more modern geniuses like Freud, Rogers and Nietsche to emphasize his points in an eloquent rattle akin to what you had for dinner last night; well, sage soothsayer is apropos. And that’s what you get with Peterson’s new book Beyond Order: 12 More Rules for Life, a book equivalent to human vitamins in literary form. For instance, his chapter wi To say that Jordan Peterson is a prophet may sound like hyperbole, but when a writer can conjure ancient Roman and Greek parables, biblical passages, and more modern geniuses like Freud, Rogers and Nietsche to emphasize his points in an eloquent rattle akin to what you had for dinner last night; well, sage soothsayer is apropos. And that’s what you get with Peterson’s new book Beyond Order: 12 More Rules for Life, a book equivalent to human vitamins in literary form. For instance, his chapter with the rule: Carefully and completely write about bad memories that haunt you not only contains three successful therapeutic case studies, but an adage of simply handling problems as a linebacker would run at his opponent. Again, Peterson uses the highest caliber vocabulary mixed with compassionate tough love that will entice you to do the same. And much like the most effective minister can inspire anyone to walk through temporary pain in order to reach well thought out solutions; even more importantly, Peterson makes you believe in a higher evolutionary state. Each of the twelve rules are so jam packed with gorgeous reasoning that the book is terribly hard to describe, but other rules such as Abandon Ideology may very well be the solution for world peace. Again, not exaggeration, so much so that I sincerely and gently challenge anyone to read this essential guide and argue otherwise. An intellectual’s equivalent to Jen Sincero (You are a Bad Ass), Peterson demands much more of your mind, but in return, embodies you with a calm, committed perseverance to make a better life.

  29. 5 out of 5

    Jeremiah

    More than anyone else living, Jordan Peterson may be the most effective voice against living a directionless life devoid of purpose and meaning. Like 12 Rules, this book contains stretches of gobbledygook joined to patches of brilliance. Chapters three, four, and nine are Peterson at his best- insightful, concise, and impassioned. I enjoyed Beyond Order more than 12 Rules; I don't know whether it's a better written book or I'm just more open to the author's message. More than anyone else living, Jordan Peterson may be the most effective voice against living a directionless life devoid of purpose and meaning. Like 12 Rules, this book contains stretches of gobbledygook joined to patches of brilliance. Chapters three, four, and nine are Peterson at his best- insightful, concise, and impassioned. I enjoyed Beyond Order more than 12 Rules; I don't know whether it's a better written book or I'm just more open to the author's message.

  30. 5 out of 5

    J.C.J. Bergman

    (My BookTube Rule by Rule analysis of the book is linked at the end of this written review) Peterson has managed to compile a piece that I'd argue is better than his '12 Rules for Life' in the sense that he surely had the time to reflect on its contents during his time being fatally unwell. The malicious and gritty laughter of the Grim Reaper as he came knocking is hard to not take any philosophy from, admittedly. Nonetheless, however, I found this piece to be highly repetitive at times given he m (My BookTube Rule by Rule analysis of the book is linked at the end of this written review) Peterson has managed to compile a piece that I'd argue is better than his '12 Rules for Life' in the sense that he surely had the time to reflect on its contents during his time being fatally unwell. The malicious and gritty laughter of the Grim Reaper as he came knocking is hard to not take any philosophy from, admittedly. Nonetheless, however, I found this piece to be highly repetitive at times given he more or less subliminally links his previous book 12 Rules for Life and its teachings into this one too. Indeed, this isn't all bad but a lot of the time it felt like he was just repeating himself and simply explaining the same points he has already made just in a different way than before. Another personal issue I had (which many are bound to disagree with) is his overuse of the Bible and Mythology throughout. At times it was appropriate and at others it fell flat for me. He is after all, as Sam Harris experienced, prone to "Jesus Smuggling" at any chance he can get which is honestly a bit irritating given his obviously promising intellect in many other regards. With all of this said, I do genuinely think this is an insightful, informative, and very impressively articulated book for the most part like '12 Rules for Life' is; they work perfectly in duality in that respect - as well as both of them looking aesthetically and philosophically pleasing given their yin/yang black and white (order & chaos) cover design. It took me a while to finish this one as I have dedicated myself to do a 12 video analysis series on each rule in the book on YouTube, and I'm glad i have chosen to do so because it has given me a greater dedication to interpret and understand Jordan Peterson's ideas within the piece. My Beyond Order YouTube video series - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3jAg...

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